I’m posting this with the caveat that one can always cherry pick sound bytes to make a point. Nevertheless, whatever else may have been said, or by whom, the record shows that Republicans have tried repeatedly to curb Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, while Democrats have strenuously resisted tighter regulation (or even oversight) of the two entities at the root of the currrent financial crisis.
I know there were Republicans in the pocket of Fannie and Freddie as well. And, if anybody can provide a counterpoint video that shows Democrats trying to curb their excesses, and Republicans vehemently opposing closer scrutiny, I’ll be happy to post that as well.
We may be focusing too narrowly on the presidential race in this election, when we should be taking a good hard look at Congress.
Hoping isn’t what’s going to bring about the change that we desperately need.
Government is Not Your Daddy 
That’s great, time to get the truth out, that failed liberal policies have cost us dearly, and will cost us dearly in the future, and that these weak, dimwitted, do-gooders have screwed us all over.
Change? Obama is the candidate of nothing will change, and we’ll just get more of the same failed liberalism.
Time to repeal the Community Reinvestment Act.
Amen.
So, do we give the House GOP a big WOOT or do we wait a few days?? I REALLY hope they stay the course and let the DOW nose dive, it is the only chance we have of getting a FREE MARKET. Ninety-four dems said NAY…WOW, I must admit, I did not see 94, I thought 35, maybe 40 but never did I see 94.
I heard on the radio that people are calling in NINE to ONE in OPPOSITION to Congress doing this bailout. Nice. I’ve already sent off two separate letters to all 3 of mine also opposing this. Thanks NYD, I posted this to all my Obamaites. We will see how they try to squeak the blame back squarely to the Republicans.
“the record shows that Republicans have tried repeatedly to curb Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, while Democrats have strenuously resisted tighter regulation (or even oversight) of the two entities at the root of the currrent financial crisis.”
Keep repeating the same nonsense over & over…maybe someday it will become true…sheesh…the GOP in favor of MORE regulations…what a farce! Who was in change of Congress in 2004?? The GOP.
“Doing away with GSEs in the first place”…that’s what this has always been about, period.
GOP member Chris Shays got as much PAC money from Fannie Mac & Freddie Mac as John Kerry did…ooopppsss… Shays was the same guys that took a 2003 trip to Qatar that was was partially paid for by a group run by a protege of disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff BTW.
Does the GOP get upset about even bigger bonuses for the their friends in the business world?? Of course not.
Franklin Raines Raines is NOT an Obama advisor and has never advised Senator Obama. Raines is a “criminal” too huh?? When’s his jail term start then??
Once again, the term “subprime” refers to loans that DO NOT meet Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines!
And what a surprise that “NakedEmperorNews” is a blatantly pro-McSame website…what a joke…
“Keep repeating the same nonsense over & over…maybe someday it will become true…sheesh…the GOP in favor of MORE regulations…what a farce! Who was in change of Congress in 2004?? The GOP.”
LOL, I don’t think Mister Guy watched the video where it showed Republicans calling for MORE regulation and Democrats calling for LESS regulation.
So now you don’t trust your eyesight and ears Mister Guy?
I just HATE it when pesky PROOF gets in the way!
hahaha, Mr. Guy, the narritive of what really happened is starting to get out, the democrats creat programs to loan money to people who cannot pay it back, then block all attempts when the republicans hahaha, Mr. Guy, the narrative of what really happened is starting to get out, the democrats create programs to loan money to people who cannot pay it back, then block all attempts when the republicans try to reform these programs.
Plenty of time to drive this message home.
Some liberal will be falling from the ranks of congress. The narrative will be driven right over them. They could not even pass the bailout even with their majority, they know it stinks and no one wants to touch it.
I’ve divested, time to buy more night vision equipment and a few more precision rifles for my collection. It will be fun watching my father, a big Obama fan, go to Costco to buy some cat food!
I liked this video as well
It seems that some conservatives are incapable of expressing themselves without name calling, labels and putting other people down. For an example, see the definition of liberals offered above: “weak, dimwitted, do-gooders.” I often wonder why it has to be like that?
Heck, apparently some can’t even wait to see their own parents reduced to eating cat food. Didn’t I hear somewhere that honoring your parents made some sort of top ten list?
I fail to see any use in comments such as these except as a way to drive Americans further away from each other.
“I don’t think Mister Guy watched the video where it showed Republicans calling for MORE regulation and Democrats calling for LESS regulation.”
Trust your eyesight and ears on this kiddo:
McSame consistently in favor of LESS regulation, not more – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4egXbhSOhk
“the narritive of what really happened is starting to get out”
It is indeed, and the public is correctly blaming the GOP:
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/09/23/poll-voters-blaming-republicans-over-democrats-for-economic-crisis.html
“the democrats creat programs to loan money to people who cannot pay it back”
Nonsense.
“then block all attempts when the republicans try to reform these programs”
Nonsense.
“They could not even pass the bailout even with their majority”
The deal was, of course, that each caucus would deliver at least half of their votes for the resucue plan, and the GOP didn’t deliver, period.
“I’ve divested, time to buy more night vision equipment and a few more precision rifles for my collection. It will be fun watching my father, a big Obama fan, go to Costco to buy some cat food!”
I got out of the markets over 2 weeks ago, but your fear-mongering & hard-hearted feelings towards your own family are totally unwarranted, but what else new eh??
There was no “subprime authorization”. Once again, the term “subprime” refers to loans that do not meet Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines, generally due to one of an array of factors including the size of the loan, income to mortgage payment ratio, or the quality of the documentation provided with the loan, period. The bundling of mortgages should have NEVER been allowed to happen, and it was only allowed to happen in the first place by deregulation pushed by the GOP. Who pushed ARMs really, really hard?? The Bush Regime and their former Fed chairman ally. The idea that home prices only increased at the rate of inflation is ridiculous!
The GOP has always been (and maybe always will be) in favor of LESS regulation, not more. Once again, McSame jumped on the “reform” bandwagon some 16 months *after* his Senate friends had introduced a bill that died on the GOP-controlled Senate floor. Franklin Raines is NOT an Obama advisor and has never advised Senator Obama. Repeating the same lies over & over again about campaign contributions (that came mostly from PACs for GOP members & overwhelmingly from inidividual contributors for Dems) is NOT going to get anyone anywhere. The truth is out there, and it has already been posted in this blog by the likes of me. “Redlining” is basically illegal now BTW…suing over it is not a crime.
It’s stunning when McSame goes after other people for doing things that HE’S actually done:
http://www.mccainslobbyists.com
Yup, “change is on the way”, and his name is Obama!
The problem with this video is it assumes its conclusion, i.e., that this crisis was caused by lack of regulation. Deregulation did not cause this. Shifting the risk from the lenders to the taxpayers did. As I noted before, the regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac proposed by the Republicans was an attempt to artificially replace the constraints that had been removed by the government policy of shifting the risk away from those who incurred it. It was damage control. But the Democrats opposed it. It’s on the record.
Mr. Guy, you need a reality check. The subprime loans may not have met Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines, but the only reason such high risk loans got issued was because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were willing to buy them up and securitize them. That’s a fact. They were the primary customers of the subprime mortgage securities. Why would they buy up loans that didn’t meet their own guidelines? Good question. Because, if they didn’t securitize those loans, nobody else would have, and no private company would have taken on that kind of risk with their own capital at stake.
“They were the primary customers of the subprime mortgage securities. Why would they buy up loans that didn’t meet their own guidelines? Good question. Because, if they didn’t securitize those loans, nobody else would have, and no private company would have taken on that kind of risk with their own capital at stake.”
Checkmate Comrade GUY.
Mr Guy, Mr. Guy, just think about what happens when this video starts hitting MSM, which it is. It’s a smoking gun, at least one of the congresscritters, who was not on the video but was part of the banking committee, has already tried to come clean and apologized.
And Wiggleswort, I’ve had enough bashing from the left, I get to do it too. We’re going to ram this glaring socialist failure, which will have to be paid for by people who actually work for a living and make money, so far up that lisping fat man Barney Frank’s ass that his head will pop and even his pet call-boys won’t tend to him anymore. The more I see that creep, the more he reminds me of Baron Harkonnen, he just needs the flying suit and a few more sores to complete the picture.
Welcome to the October surprise, gentlemen.
We have it all on tape.
It’s all over YouTube.
It’s on TV already.
More will be coming.
Soon every American will know the truth, and good, hard working people will decide they don’t want to pay for those who aren’t.
NYD is far more polite than I am, and might be mad I post antisocial things on this blog (I’m only a sociopath sometimes, the rest of the time I’m nice), but I’m always happy to kick smarmy, condescending liberal asses in the teeth.
S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005
McCain:
“Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.
The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.
For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.
I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.”
Today:
We have a crisis with Fannie and Freddie on the front line.
There is no way in hell I am going to blame McCain for this like you are. That is horse dung. So what that McCain thinks the “fundamentals of the economy are strong”? Aside from Fannie and Freddie, I’d say we are doing pretty well. In fact, I think we are doing well enough that even though we were told “the economy is collapsing tomorrow if we dont prop them back up immediately” and two weeks later, here we are the same. Hell, didn’t the big dogs even have a chance to take a 2 day break in the midst of this “crisis of a lifetime”?
Don’t try to divert the issue at hand saying this is McCain’s fault. Because you pulling the “McSame” card is exactly what you are doing here. Address the video. Who was doing what Mister Guy? Tell me… I want to hear you say it.
So no, I don’t buy it MG. McCain warned. Committee hearings were held. And the video shows it all. You can’t deny the video unless you are more delusional than David Berkowitz.
Tuco, I actually feel sorry for you. Sorry that you are incapable of processing a world view which just might include perspectives and opinions other than your own. And, even worse, you are unable to express yourself without resorting to insults and put downs. I think that says a LOT about you. “Wiggleswort?” Ha. Nice try. Can’t you even make the smallest attempt not to prove my point?
I processed your worldview just fine, Wiggleswort, it involved me giving and others taking. If I want to give, I will. If I don’t, I will say no. If you want to compel me to give through taxation, I will fight back.
My dad lives down the street from one of the richest people on the planet, I’m sure he’ll have nice cat food, and I think his million+ dollar house is mostly paid for, and he probably does not have a lot of debt. He made his own choices to get where he is, and I do not feel liable to pay for them. If he wants me to fund his lifestyle, I’ll say no.
I can express myself just fine without putdowns, but when one is earned I will surely feel free to dole it out.
instead of all the finger pointing, why don’t we all do try to do something about it?! even if it’s just letting congress know that we’re ticked off about all of this and the ways that it’s affecting us. this site has a forum that allows just that. give them your input/feedback/concerns, and they will be our voice in congress!
http://www.friendsoftheuschamber.com/email/wall_street_3.html
Trex, your site says “We want to know your story so we can share it with leaders in Congress to spur immediate action to rescue this economy!”
What sort of immediate action are you trying to spur? A lot of folks in Congress are recommending immediate action, but not all are agreed on what that action should be. Some of us don’t think Congress should take any action to “rescue” our economy, but prefer a hands off approach, letting the free market re-establish its own equilibrium. And some have already written to our Congressmen to express our points of view.
Can you tell us what you see as the benefit of going through your site, rather than writing to one’s Congressmen directly?
“Deregulation did not cause this.”
How do you think the market that developed for mortgage-backed securities, which were backed by pools of shaky mortgages, was allowed to happen in the first place??? It was *deregulation* pushed by the same people that have been running the McSame campaign. I’ve already shown that for cripes sake!
“the only reason such high risk loans got issued was because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were willing to buy them up and securitize them.”
And none of that (which was allowed by deregulation in the first place) should been allowed to happen in the first place!!
“They were the primary customers of the subprime mortgage securities.”
No, they weren’t…really now…how can you blame an organization that would have NEVER made those types of loans in the first place on their existance??
“Why would they buy up loans that didn’t meet their own guidelines?”
Once again, because there was an artificial market that developed for them, which was allowed by deregulation, period. Learn some history…
“just think about what happens when this video starts hitting MSM”
The video is bogus, and the American people have already firmly blamed the GOP for this mess…as has been show by polls which I’ve already shown.
“so far up that lisping fat man Barney Frank’s ass that his head will pop and even his pet call-boys won’t tend to him anymore.”
Homo-phobic much??
“Welcome to the October surprise, gentlemen.”
Keep dreaming Taco…
“S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005”
Look…if Chuck Hagel (who supports Obama BTW), John Sununu (who’s going down in defeat next month) & Elizabeth Dole would like to toot their own horns on what this bill *might* have done, then great. McSame however doesn’t get any “profiles in courage” for signing onto the bill 16 months after it died though.
Lobbying Congress?? McSame’s campaign manager is STILL on the dole from the same entities that you guys are railing against, period.
“I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation.”
LOL…all this was grandstanding over a YEAR AND A HALF after the bill in question died…what a joke McSame is!
“So what that McCain thinks the ‘fundamentals of the economy are strong’? Aside from Fannie and Freddie, I’d say we are doing pretty well.”
Who’s delusion now?? Read any newspapers recently…the Bush economy is going in the tank you fool!
“and two weeks later, here we are the same.”
No money in a retirement fund or the stock market eh?? Consider yourself lucky then kiddo.
“Address the video.”
I DID address the video above…it’s bogus, and I stated specifically why. Learn to read kiddo.
“Committee hearings were held.”
And the GOP Congress did nothing, period end of story.
I agree it shouldn’t have happened, but it was not caused by deregulation. It was caused by the fact that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are GSEs, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Taxpayer with no accountability for the risks they incur. In a free market, that wouldn’t happen. You’re in denial, Mr. Guy.
It’s quite simple. They were the ones buying up the securities for all those sub-prime mortgages. Nobody would issue such high risk loans if they didn’t have someone they could sell them to, no questions asked. That’s where Fannie and Freddie came in. Lenders don’t risk their own capital on obviusly bad loans.
Deregulation doesn’t create an “artificial” market. A free market reaches it’s own equilibrium. An “artificial” market can only be created by government interference or monopolization. Learn some ecomonics…
You did state it was bogus, but you did not state why. All you said was “the American people have already firmly blamed the GOP for this mess.” Most American people haven’t even seen the video. Even if they had, the fact that someone believes something is not evidence that it is true. You seem to be logic-impaired, as well as in denial.
Most liberals don’t think. They repeat and emote. Showing them evidence of something that contradicts what they’ve been told to believe is pointless: they can’t absorb direct data. They can’t process it. It’s like expecting a dog to be rational. They know how to feel insulted. They know how to feel aggrieved. They know how to repeat what they’ve been told to believe. If you can find a use for someone with those skills, consider hiring one. Some of them will work for food.
“but it was not caused by deregulation.”
Of course it was, and the record as I have stated (complete with numerous citations) is quite clear on that.
“You’re in denial, Mr. Guy.”
You’re projecting now NYD.
“They were the ones buying up the securities for all those sub-prime mortgages.”
No, they were not buying them “all” up, and this kind of action would NOT have happened in the first place if the “bundling” and selling of these types of mortgages were allowed by deregulation.
“Lenders don’t risk their own capital on obviusly bad loans.”
Lenders do this all the time without anyone prodding them to do it.
“Deregulation doesn’t create an ‘artificial’ market.”
Sheesh…learn some history!! What were the New Deal-era regulations of the financial markets, like the Glass-Steagall Act, out to prevent before they were repealed at the behest of the GOP in the late 1990s?? They prevented a “repeat of the 1920’s era scams in which banks made speculative investments, turned the debts into securities, and sold them off to unsuspecting investors with the blessing of the bank.” That is EXACTLY what happened here!!
How did the $62 trillion market for credit default swaps (CDSs) become legal?? It was created by a GOP member (Phil Gramm) in 2000 through a 262-page amendment (“The Commodity Futures Modernization Act”)to a government re-authorization bill. It freed financial institutions from oversight of their CDS transactions. According to the Texas Observer, “Prior to its passage, they say, banks underwrote mortgages and were responsible for the risks involved. Now, through the use of [CDSs]-which in theory insure the banks against bad debts-those risks are passed along to insurance companies and other investors”. Sound familiar??
“You did state it was bogus, but you did not state why.”
Ugh…so, I guess I’ll repeat myself once again in relation to what was contained in that bogus, partisan video:
“There was no ‘subprime authorization’. Once again, the term ‘subprime’ refers to loans that do not meet Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines, generally due to one of an array of factors including the size of the loan, income to mortgage payment ratio, or the quality of the documentation provided with the loan, period. The bundling of mortgages should have NEVER been allowed to happen, and it was only allowed to happen in the first place by deregulation pushed by the GOP. Who pushed ARMs really, really hard?? The Bush Regime and their former Fed chairman ally. The idea that home prices only increased at the rate of inflation is ridiculous!
The GOP has always been (and maybe always will be) in favor of LESS regulation, not more. Once again, McSame jumped on the ‘reform’ bandwagon some 16 months *after* his Senate friends had introduced a bill that died on the GOP-controlled Senate floor. Franklin Raines is NOT an Obama advisor and has never advised Senator Obama. Repeating the same lies over & over again about campaign contributions (that came mostly from PACs for GOP members & overwhelmingly from inidividual contributors for Dems) is NOT going to get anyone anywhere. The truth is out there, and it has already been posted in this blog by the likes of me. ‘Redlining’ is basically illegal now BTW…suing over it is not a crime.”
“You seem to be logic-impaired, as well as in denial.”
And you appear to be rapidly unlearning your ability to read NYD.
Just a small thought, Daddy.
Markets don’t reach equilibrium. They seek equilibrium. But in an ever changing and dynamic world, the only thing that is in equilibrium, in the long run, is death. The perfect steady-state.
.
Did you happen to see 60 Minutes last Sunday? It was about the completely unregulated shell game lovingly called the “shadow market.” Completely unregulated? Well then, that must be “free market!”
Heh.
Sorry, Wiggles, I don’t have a television. Can you hum a few bars for me?
Try this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/main4502454.shtml
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/os_dangerous_pals_131216.htm
One other thing I’ve done, is I’ve called on private sector mortgage banks and banks to be more aggressive about lending money to first-time home buyers. And the response has been really good. There’s a lot of people in this — our communities around the country that deeply care about the issue of homeownership, and they’ve been responsive.
–George W. Bush, March 26, 2004
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040326-15.html
Oh wait. I forgot. This was all the fault of Democrats who wanted more poor people to own homes. :o
By the way, if you read that White House.gov transcript, it is interesting to note that John McCain was there. Something he seems to have forgotten during the debates. :)
Read. Learn:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_1_the_trillion_dollar.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/25/AR2008092503600.html
Mister Guy,
I see that you are still the master of mis-information. I dare you to google S.190 the bill that would have prevented Fannie and Freddie’s toxic mess from infecting and melting down the economy and really messing up the cushy retirement, 12 years from now, that my 401K was on track to provide for me.
Just one freaking time, I’d love a Democrat to tell the truth about anything. YOU KNOW that even though Republicans nominally controlled Congress, Democrats had plenty of power to filibuster anything they wanted, particularly in Committee.
S.190 went down in the Senate Banking,Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee. Every single Democrat on the committee sided against it, so that even though every Republican was for it, YOUR guys killed it. Your guys protected their buddies at these Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs)to keep campaign contributions coming. Your buddies were for deregulation in this case. This was 2005. Check it out.
You are as wrong on this issue as you were on energy. Democrats good, Republicans bad is the sum total of your universe.
Now tell me that Democrats did not kill the regulating of Fannie and Freddie. Tell me that Barney Frank, in the House, and Chris Dodd, and Chuckie Schumer in the Senate are not dirty on this issue.
Sen.Obama was sworn in on Jan. 4 2005. There is no record of him, as far as I know, speaking out in favor of bill S.190. He and the rest of the prominent Democrats, not on the Senate banking committee, were strangely silent. Had they spoken out, perhaps my 401K would be 40% higher right now. No, I’m not bitter at all.
Senator McCain is on record supporting the bill.
Just in case you missed it, the Dow Jones went up 936 points today.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/futures-jump-european-crafts-rescue-plan/
One of the textbook moves of an Internet troll is changing your user name and trying to stir up more baloney. It’s not going to work here troll…you really can go away now…no feeding the trolls… :)
Good stuff Wigglesworth.
Mister Guy,
The name change was quite accidental. This not being the only forum site where truth has to be defended, I did not realize which name came up automatically before I posted. My sincere appologies to the other posters.
I reasoned afterward that by my tone, you’d figure out who I was. I also see that this forum is in the same desperate need of facts that the other one was, since I find you here.
LOL…as the “dinosaur” thread has clearly shown…you have ZERO facts to offer troll…just more Right-wing noise…bye-bye now…
Since I am a right wing free enterprise person I will quote from a source that Messrs Wigglesworth and Guy will never read.
From National Review. ‘Anything -Goes Democrats’: “Fannie and Freddie are government sponsored enterprises (GSEs). As long as they’ve been around, investors have assumed that the U.S. government would never let them fail.”
“Free market advocates warned that Fannie and Freddie’s heedless growth was, to quote Alan Greenspan, ” placing the total financial system of the future at substantial risk.”But the GSEs built an impressive lobbying machine to keep would be regulators at bay.”
” Over the past ten years, Fannie and Freddie spent over $200 million on lobbying and campaign contributions. Democrats Chris Dodd , John Kerry, and Barak Obama– the top recipients of Fannie and Freddie largess–have all broken the $ 100,000 mark. It should come as no surprise that Senate Democrats were the key obstacle to reforming Fannie and Freddie when Congress had a chance in 2005, before the mortgage crisis spiraled out of control.”
The Road To Financial Hell:
“Fannie and Freddie enjoyed an “implicit subsidy”: Investors and lenders expected the government to bail them out if necessary, as indeed it did. Privatizing profits while socializing risks is a formula for imprudent behavior. That’s not a bug in the firm’s design. It’s a feature. They were set up as government-backed companies to do what no private firm in it’s right mind would do.”
From National Review:
Anything-goes Democrats
“Fannie and Freddie’s defenders in the House were no better. Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank maintained that Fannie and Freddie did not pose a risk to the financial system, even as they helped inflate the housing bubble by subsidizing mortgage debt. Then when the bubble finally burst, Frank tried to loosen Fannie and Freddie’s constraints so they could reinflate it.”
Mister Guy,
You and your Democratic friends will be believed by the ignorant, that the private sector, deregulation, and Republicans are to blame for this mess. Just as the ignorant believe DNC ads showing the most pathetic old people, with the message that if Republicans had gotten their way, ” your SS money would have disappeared in the latest stock market crash.” Those of us who are informed, small in number that we are, will continue to keep the flame of truth flickering.
How dare you speak the truth! Truth is a weapon used by Trolls. Trolls are bad, just like Republicans. How can you tell if a person is a Troll? If you write bad things, you are a Troll. If you don’t support Obama, you are a racist. If you don’t support Acorn, you are a racist. If you don’t express only the most enlightened ideas, you are a bad and mean Troll. Also, you are stupid, like Sarah Palin, who has too many children and isn’t rich enough to be smart like Obama (who went to Harvard). George W. Bush also went to Harvard, but that doesn’t count.
Some of y’all may have changed names on here, but I haven’t. I have only posted using ONE name and anyone who says different is a liar, completely wrong, and probably just plain ol’ stupid. Deal with it.
I note with some interest that information I posted got zero comment. I win this thread.
I said, “good day!!!”
In the beginning of this forum, there is a statement that Republicans tried to reform the GSEs and Democrats blocked reform. While admitting that some Republicans may be guilty, the statement as a generality is accurate. The posted video backs it up. I posted quotes from National Review which also support this theme. The opening statement also challenged anyone to show where Democrats supported GSE reform, with Republicans in opposition.
Well true to form Mister Guy rose to the challenge. I viewed the video from the address he posted. What it consists of is a series of bites with McCain saying he is for deregulation of business. None of it mentions Fannie or Freddie reform. His other posting consists of a pole that shows Americans blaming the banking mess on Republicans. Neither of his postings show Democrats fighting to regulate the GSEs or Republicans opposing it.
This is consistent with the quality of his postings on the oil drilling board.
Wigglesworth,
How did you come up with a pen name like that?
I disagree with you, but unlike Mister Guy, you at least post a coherent, relevant article to support your point. Your point being, I suppose that Bush and McCain were in favor of looser lending standards so that minority and other first timers could own houses.
Your point has some validity, but to say that this makes Bush and McCain complicit in the CSEs fraudulent accounting and failure is a stretch. I know McCain pushed reform in 2005, and I believe the administration also pushed before that. Just because Bush and McCain were lauding increased home ownership, you have not proven that they stood in the way of higher standards for the CSEs, or that ANY Democrat was for them.
THAT is what you were asked to do. The threshold for glory is higher than your mighty effort. I hate to tell you this, but you can’t book this as a win.
“How can you tell if a person is a Troll?”
Apemantus…the reason you don’t who the trolls are here is because you didn’t see this particular troll’s performance in the afformentioned “dinosaur” thread. When that troll was confronted with actual facts & data that completely contradicted what his ideological views were, he would immediately change the subject or go off on some wild rant that had little to do with the subject at hand. After dealing with him for roughly two whole months…I gave up…all I was doing was feeding an Internet troll & we all know that they really all deserve to be starved for attention.
“If you don’t support Obama, you are a racist. If you don’t support Acorn, you are a racist.”
Wrong.
“I have only posted using ONE name”
So have I. :)
Wamba,
Thanks for the nice comments. They almost seemed glowing. :)
Smith Wigglesworth was a somewhat famous figure in the early history of Pentecostalism back in the 1800’s. I thought his name was cute. He also believed that God cured his hemorrhoids. The guy had style. :)
The thing about Bush is that he basically challenged industry to provide more home loans including those with no money down. My other point, which you might have missed, was that while the Democrats stand accused of causing this crisis, there was a “shell game” with something like $60 trillion of unregulated money that also had a lot to do with this crisis. The money was completely unregulated due to an exploited loophole. See the 60 Minutes link above.
The one, the only…
–Wiggles
Wigglesworth,
Before I rip out your guts rhetorically, I have to say it is fun to spar with someone intelligent. We will have to agree to disagree. OK I’m done being nice.
I believe there are two main parts to this banking crisis. The public sector part, of which Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are to blame, and the private sector, for which we blame AIG, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, etc.
This forum spelled out in the beginning that it was concerned with blaming someone for the public sector GSE’s failures. I, being a Republican can muster more evidence to blame the Democrats, than you can muster to blame Republicans. I can also defend Bush and company, as far as Fannie and Freddie, better than you can defend Frank, Dodd, Kerry, Obama etc. The following site is a time line defense of the Bush administration’s actions and warnings about the GSEs:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html
To be fair I went to the 60 minutes link. In my opinion this relates to the private sector part of the banking crisis. There the blame, besides the obvious Wall Street greed, is harder to assign. Here is a link to the AIG part of the mess: http://www.gata.org/node/6681 It’s amazing how a guy named Joseph J. Cassano, running the London office, could ruin a company as big as AIG.
I know you will blame Republican deregulation for this part? I have about 100 more paragraphs on this but since I’m long, I yield my time back to you.
I just want to hug you, Wamba. :)
Private sector? Precisely my point! Or, in “Not Your Daddy” terms, “free market.” Pure unregulated free market the way nature intended. (Even though it took a dirty little end run to get around government regulations that were meant to prevent the sort of thing they ended up doing.) Exploited Loophole Shell Game 1, American People 0.
As for the rest, I basically agree with you. The blame game gets old, but I can see what you are saying.
I had a discussion with a Republican buddy yesterday. As always it was great fun. Prior to talking to him, I’d recently heard stuff like this was all Carter’s fault. Heh. I always have to wonder. Why didn’t the administration in charge (and the political philosophy it represents) during the last eight years have anything to do with it? :)
My buddy proceeded to tell me how the mortgage crisis was Clinton’s fault and dated back to 1999 because Clinton and the Dems wanted more people to enjoy home ownership.
I said that’s all fine and dandy, except for two things. First, if it was so bad, why didn’t Bush and Reps do anything about it during the last eight years? And second, how do you reconcile Bush’s rah rah “we need more ‘no money down’ mortgages” comments to industry as recent as 2004?
I don’t believe in the blame game. Each side takes a coin and says their side is the only correct one. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, usually isn’t true, and certainly isn’t helpful in terms of improving things and coming up with actual solutions.
–The Wiggly One
Wigglesworth,
Forgive me for this, but a hug from anyone with the hutzpa to call himself Wigglesworth is even more frightening than being called a troll by Mister Guy.
I’m afraid that the blame game is unavoidable. The stakes in the election are too high. I am a hard core capitalist supporting, G.W.Bush guy. With Sen.Obama blaming Republican policies, most of which I believe in, for the current Bank problems, I have to point out where Democrats at least share the blame.
“And second, how do you reconcile Bush’s rah rah “we need more ‘no money down’ mortgages” comments to industry as recent as 2004?”
An intelligent question demands my best effort at an answer. I believe the President wanted to keep first timers in the market. Here comes the “But”.
Fannie and Freddie were way beyond this. If you are going to loan to beginners, you have an obligation to see that they do not buy more house, than they can afford. Lenders such as Country Wide were the most infamous. Loading these folks up with debt and ARMs was nuts.
These lenders did no due diligence. Now add to this mess, the speculators. They hoped to flip the homes for a profit before the ARMs and teaser rates adjusted up. These guys simply walked away, when the houses became worth less than the loans. No down payment loans were not meant for these guys. They got them and since they had no equity, default cost them nothing.
This mess is only bad because it got so big before it went bust. As bad as Country Wide and Wall Street were, the sheer size of the problem was because the GSEs just kept buying the bad loans. The Republicans can justly claim that tried to fix the huge liability on Fannie and Freddy’s books with the 2005 law. The Democrats are hard pressed to explain why they protected the senior management at these behemoths, and succumbed to their lobbying.
I am a big believer in cycles. We have been here before with the Savings and Loan bail outs of the 80s. Then as now, politicians vowed to regulate the financial world so that it never happens again. There will be overkill on some laws again. Financial types will lobby to adjust said laws so that they can compete. There will be another real estate boom. Nobel prize winners will have computer models, no one understands, that eliminate risk.
History will then repeat itself, because as Bismarck reportedly said “What we learn from history is that no one learns from history.”
As Americans this applies to us especially. With hope, I give another quote from the same source, “There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America.”
Frank Raines and Joseph J. Cassano. Two really smart guys that did some really stupid things with other people’s money. Both men convinced a lot of people that there was no risk with the investments they controlled. Both men got rich. Both men had people above them who should have known better.
Neither of these two men, Raines in the public sector, Cassano in the private sector, has lost the fortunes they made. The sad part is, that no matter what anyone says, this will all repeat itself 20,30 years from now. In good times, people always believe that you can’t lose with real estate.
From the posted video of this forum.
Franklin Raines, when told that a bank whose capital drops below 4% is in trouble, and that Fannie Mae’s capital was 3%, said : ” These assets are so riskless that their capital for holding them should be under 2%.”
Joseph Cassano of AIG
http://www.gata.org/node/6681
“For his part, Mr. Cassano apparently was not worried that his unit had taken on more than it could handle. In an August 2007 conference call with analysts, he described the credit default swaps as almost a sure thing.
“It is hard to get this message across, but these are very much handpicked,” he assured those on the phone.
Just a few months later, however, the credit crisis deepened. AIG Financial Products began to choke on losses — though they were only on paper.”
What are the differences between Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher aka: Joe the Plumber and Senator Barak Obama?
Senator Obama thinks he understands the middle class. Joe the Plumber is the middle class. Senator Obama rose from poor beginnings to make millions, Joe the Plumber wants to rise from poor beginnings, buy a plumbing business and make $250,000 per year. If you say Senator Obama’s middle name, you are a racist, Joe the plumber is happy if you call him by his middle name.
[…] came across this blog post today during my daily digestion of news and opinion. Of course this blogger is a Republican […]
Politic Me » Regulation of Fannie and Freddie Said: ,
Reply: Yes roles would seem to be reversed. Republicans in favor of regulating two private banks and Democrats favoring deregulation.
The thing to remember is that the GSEs were really not private companies. They masqueraded as that. Republicans calling for stricter oversight of F&F, can rightly claim they were clamping down on out of control Gov. agencies.
It has not been shown that Republicans accepting campaign contributions from the GSEs, did anything to protect them. The Democrats, on the other hand, gave Fannie and Freddie more than their money’s worth.
Why the GSEs were allowed to give money to politicians and essentially bribe them, is a question we will never see on NBC,CBS,ABC,CNN,or MSNBC. Too many of their friends would be embarrassed.
Wamba, you seem to have latched on to a very small part of my post and allowed the balance to fall through the cracks. However you raise a very intriguing point and I would like to expound upon it.
I honestly didn’t envision your response and it struck me a bit off guard primarily because of what your argument implies. For the sake of argument let us consider your point and even take it a step further and suppose that Fannie and Freddie are actual governmental bodies operating underneath HUD, although in 2009 the regulatory control of HUD transfers to the Federal Housing Finance Agency. Would you not agree then Republicans are definitely operating under their normal guise of keeping a tight leash on government and the spending that results from such. I find the argument interesting because, and this may be a matter of perspective, it portrays the Republicans as setting a double standard.
GSE’s, government sponsored enterprises, were originally tasked for mortgage lending in 1932 during the Great Depression. They have private ownership and are publicly traded and the majority of the board are elected by private owners. Their original intention and their modus operandi until this year has to been operate entirely separate from the government with the exception of following the regulations set by HUD. Given this fact they should be ran as a private institution which by the Republican standard should have little to no regulation.
Republicans can not preach deregulation of businesses then be in the position of running a business then demand regulation. We have plenty of politicians, if not all of them, that can talk the talk but when it comes to it they can’t walk the walk. For the GOP to maintain report they need to fight to run these mortgage businesses and now insurance businesses the way they want private businesses to be ran with little to no regulation. If they truly feel that no regulation is what allows businesses to be profitable then I want A.I.G. and Freddie and Fannie to run without regulation so I can get my 700+ billion dollars back.
However, as you would expect, I do want regulation of these businesses and close oversight. I want that of private institutions as well because it wasn’t only Fannie and Freddie that got us into this mess. We had hedge funds, thrifts, investment banks, etc. that were making these horrible investments and they were all private, and as I had mentioned in 2006 private institutions were outpacing these GSE’s in subprime-backed mortgages thus why they raised the quota to 56% of purchased assets.
As far as Fannie and Freddie benefiting from the lobbying efforts of DCI, well I guess it would depend on who you ask. I believe yourself and I would both say that given the current situation they did not benefit. I raised the coincidences only because I believe the Republicans could have gotten the bill passed, they had the majority at the time and there was a small group of Democrats favoring the regulation, however DCI was successful in quiting them and now we see very large corporate donations. Also, I raised it because Obama has taken heat because of the 126k that he has received, but this was not from F&F but it was from the employees of F&F. McCain truly has benefited more from F&F donations than Obama. In an effort to be fair you did not bring it up in your post but I wanted to mention it for other readers who may be interested.
Politic me,
You made more points than I want to address. Your point that Republicans were guilty of a double standard, has me puzzled. By 2005 it was apparent to many people that the GSEs trillions in liabilities were untenable.
The question is, what do you do about it? If they really were private companies, Congress could have just said, Tough Situation. When they eventually fail, only the stock holders would be wiped out. In a real private enterprise the stock holders hopefully would have board directors that could see the risk and rein in management. You might say, that like AIG, they were too big to let fail and you would be right.
With Fannie and Freddie, the Senate Banking Committee was the defacto board of directors. In any corrupt company where management has bought the board, the stock holders, or in this case, the taxpayers get hosed.
The 2005 bill was the Republicans last attempt to defuse the GSEs before they blew up. There are two arguments that you’ve made, that I’ve heard many times. I go ballistic each time. First that Republicans were in charge. They could’ve gotten the Bill passed with out the Democrats. This is untrue. The Democrats on the Banking Committee filibustered the Bill. They stopped it cold in Committee. If you know otherwise, prove me wrong.
The second is that Republicans, McCain in particular, got GSE money too. OK.
SHOW me where McCain or any Republican blocked efforts to regulate the GSEs. SHOW me where any Democrat, Senator Obama in particular spoke up in 2005 in support of the Bill, or for that matter any regulation of Fannie and Freddie. I am ready to believe you. Honest I am.
“Given this fact they should be ran as a private institution which by the Republican standard should have little to no regulation.”
“Republicans can not preach deregulation of businesses then be in the position of running a business then demand regulation.”
“as I had mentioned in 2006 private institutions were outpacing these GSE’s in subprime-backed mortgages”
“I raised it because Obama has taken heat because of the 126k that he has received, but this was not from F&F but it was from the employees of F&F. McCain truly has benefited more from F&F donations than Obama.”
Exactly!
McSame economic policies shaped by lobbyists:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24844889
Mortgage firm arranged stealth campaign with GOP:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing
What all the hot-air about Freddie & Fannie from the Right really is about is just a weak attempt to squash them, because many in the GOP were never in favor of their existence anyways.
Even Greenspan admits that his philoshopy of limited financial regulations was wrong:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24548000-643,00.html
Be careful when dealing with trolls Politic Me, they bob & weave & change the subject a lot…you’ll never get anywhere with them.
I believe that Mister Guy has actually opened a new area of debate. His MSNBC link is an article by Keith Olbermann, basically saying that McCain is tarnished by having Phil Gramm as an advisor, because Gramm co-authored the bill to repeal parts of the Glass-Steagall act of the 1930s.
Now, I personally hate Olbermann and think anything he says is suspect. That said, the debate is, which is more responsible for the banking crisis, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or the Democrats protecting their buddies at Fannie and Freddie.
Some background on the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
The mere word deregulation seems to have evil associated with it, except of course, when Franklin Raines is mentioned, then it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread to a Democrat.
Mister Guy,
“What all the hot-air about Freddie & Fannie from the Right really is about is just a weak attempt to squash them, because many in the GOP were never in favor of their existence anyways.”
Did you not watch the posted video at the beginning of the board?
Oh, and allow me to be the first to thank your state of OR for contributing to the big Obama victory…your state’s support for President Obama was never really in any doubt. :)
I’ve decided to embrace change. I will no longer make my mortgage payments after January. Uncle Freddie and Aunt Fannie wouldn’t dare foreclose on me now. I will stop paying my natural gas bill. What the heck, my kid’s college bills may as well be paid by Obama Claus too. I know now that we finally have someone coming to the White House who will take take of me, the little guy.
I will also resign from my current employment. I hope someone from the winning side will take pity on a poor Republican and get me an application for one of them 5 million green collar jobs. I am ready to believe the promises.
One Democrat Congressman admitted being wrong on GSEs. When will the rest come clean?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431209,00.html
“Artur Davis of Alabama issued the following statement to “Hannity & Colmes”:
“Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong”
Now Alan Scott,
You don’t REALLY expect Comrade Guy to accept an article from FOX news do you???