Taking Our Country Back, Part 2

The reactions I’ve gotten to my Tea Party speech are varied. Some people seem to think I was saying we should all be good little Republicans and vote for whomever “they” put on the ballot. One person actually thought I was advocating taking up arms against our government. (Not sure how he got that…)

Let me clarify my intent. If we truly want to take our country back, and restore it to the Republic that our founding fathers intended, we need to do it within the framework established by our founding fathers. That means we do it by voting. Voting alone is not sufficent, however. We need to get actively involved.

Setting aside wishful thinking, and acknowledging the reality of our two-party system, if we want to effect change in our government, we need to control one of the two major parties. The Democrat Party has already been spoken for by socialists; we’re not going to get much traction there. The Republican Party was originally founded on the same principles on which the Tea Party movement is founded. It seems reasonable to believe we have a chance of restoring that party to its true, legitimate roots.

I believe the Republican Party has betrayed the principles on which it was founded, and has been betraying them for years. I’m by no means suggesting that conservatives should fall in with the party line. I’m saying the opposite. Conservatives should be the ones defining the party line. The party line (platform) is formulated by the members who actively participate as PCPs and delegates. It’s very easy to become a PCP, and the PCPs elect the delegates. If we want to take back the party, we have to do it from within. That means registering Republican and working as grass roots activists within the party to rebuild it from the ground up.

As individuals, whether it makes more sense to register Republican or third party depends on the goals we want to achieve. If our goal is to find other idealistic people who all agree with us, we’re more likely to achieve that goal in a third party, because it’s a smaller, more narrowly focused group. If our goal is to actually change our government, and truly take our country back, the very quality that makes third parties effective in achieving the first goal makes them unable to achieve the second. We need massive numbers to achieve change in government.

If we can concede that we will always have some differences, but work together on the common goals that are most important to all of us, we can stop this country’s slide toward socialism and actually turn it around. But it takes a willingness to focus on the core goals that unite us (small government, less regulation, lower taxes) and a willingness to set aside (at least temporarily) the issues that divide us. And it takes a willingness to commit some of our time and energy to the worthwhile effort of taking our country back.

The idea of taking up arms against our government seems to have an appeal to some people. As a realist, I’m very much aware that, no matter how many weapons we might stockpile, we cannot outgun the mightiest military the world has ever known. Military technology has come a long way since 1776. In fact, the government wouldn’t even need to send in the military to quell a rebellion today. They could just shut down the power grid. That’s reality.

I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t stockpile weapons. I’m just saying it won’t help us save our nation. However, if it should come to pass that we do actually lose our country, then a stockpile of weapons could come in very handy. But, by that point, our nation would already be irretrievably lost, along with the ideals and principles upon which it was founded. I hope and pray it never comes to that.

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  1. The contradiction underlying your premises here is readily apparent. You say:

    “If we truly want to take our country back, and restore it to the Republic that our founding fathers intended, we need to do it within the framework established by our founding fathers.”

    But then, in the very next paragraph:

    “Setting aside wishful thinking, and acknowledging the reality of our two-party system, if we want to effect change in our government, we need to control one of the two major parties.”

    The two-party system is, of course, mentioned NOWHERE in the constitution, in fact parties are not mentioned in the constitution AT ALL. If you want to get back to what the “founding fathers intended” you CANNOT DO IT within the two-party system, because the two-party system is a structure that has been superimposed over the constitutional framework to allow the ruling political class, i.e. the Democratic and Republican political class, to hijack the government of the United States and to serve the interests of the corporatist masters.

    Your plan to take over the Republican Party is as misguided as it is certain to fail. You could spend the same amount of effort to actually do something about the threat facing the people of the United States, and that threat is Democratic-Republican Party government. Instead, you want to play political games with the careerists and the flacks in the ruling parties.

    • My statement on working within the framework established by our founding fathers referred to voting. As noted in the original speech, in a Constitutional Republic, the way we take our country back is through the electoral process.

      WRT the two-party system. When was the last time a third party candidate was elected president? When was the last time a third party candidate was even a significanct contender in a presidential election? How many third party representatives and senators are there in Congress? Even Ron Paul is a Republican.

      I understand the dissatisfaction with the two party system. That’s why I was a Libertarian for almost thirty years. But all my votes for Libertarian candidates might as well have been votes for Wile E Coyote or the Roadrunner. You can be a grassroots activist in a third party, and effect the direction of the party. But you cannot effect the direction of the country that way. I wish you could. But you can’t.

      At heart, I’m still a libertarian. But, more than anything, I’m a realist. I believe results count. I believe we need to stop our nation’s slide into socialism. I’m willing to work together with anybody who shares that same goal, regardless of what other political or philosophical disagreements we may have.

      Idealism is a beautiful thing but, if you want results in the real world, you have to deal with reality.

  2. d.eris,

    ” The two-party system is, of course, mentioned NOWHERE in the constitution, in fact parties are not mentioned in the constitution AT ALL. ”

    True, but if you look at the early history of of the Republic, there has almost always been a two party establishment . The Federalists were opposed by the Democratic-Republican Party . Those parties split and disappeared and new ones emerged . Third parties generally did not survive. When they did, it was because one of the two dominate parties declined or disappeared . Then eventually the old third party became one of the dominate two parties .

    I say that if your third party ever succeeded, it would merely in time, be taken over by the interests of one of the parties it displaced . It is more productive to gain influence in the party closest to your interests, than it is to divide your interests with a third party .

    What the liberals did during the recent past is instructive . Ralph Nader weakened liberals with his third party in 2000. Hard core liberals then took over the Democratic Party . If these neo-Communists had gone third party, they would not have won in 2006 and 2008 .

    Conservatives and Tea Party members can not expect to achieve much with out taking over the Republican Party . History has shown that unless a second party is beyond redemption, third parties merely give victory back to the first party .

  3. “there has almost always been a two party establishment”

    Such formulations conform to the ideology demanded by the ruling two-party establishment, which seeks to convince us that the Democratic-Republican two-party state has always existed and will always exist. This is the language of all ruling establishments, which fancy themselves eternal in order to dissuade others from engaging in the the real work of politics.

    One could equally state in response to the above that there has always been independent and third party opposition, so long as there has been a recognizable two-party establishment. And one might add that all great political movements in US history have been independent and third party movements, and that the party establishments have had to be dragged kicking and screaming the whole way.

    Today, however, the two-party state is arguably qualitatively different. The Democratic-Republican Party apparatus and ruling political class is literally hostile to the Constitution, to republicanism, democracy, rights, liberties and the rule of law. The institution of the two-party state is corrosive of US society, politics, culture and government. To work within them rather than in opposition to them is to enable, facilitate and empower the corrosion and corruption that emanates from the Democratic-Republican two-party state and ruling political class.

    Government is not your daddy. And the party is not your mommy.

  4. The roll of government is to be your “DADDY” and to promote the general well being of the general public.

    It is the agencies of the “GOVERNMENT” that is entrusted with the responsibilities of insuring that those that are the citizens, are protected by the agencies of the “Government.”

    Protected from those that are the anti-social elements that would selfishly profit themselves at the expense of everyone else in our community.

    Political parties compete by telling the respective communities that they represent, that they can do a better job, of being your daddy, than the opposition can.

    That is the nature and the soul of representative government.

    If you are not interested in being a daddy and protecting the people as a whole from those that would take advantage of the population, by exploiting them and robbing them of the fruits of their labor.

    If your concern is to be contrary to being a “daddy!”
    You should not be concerned with promoting and establishing political parties.

    It is the nature and the soul, of political parties, to “BE YOUR DADDY!”

  5. d.eris,

    From a practical standpoint I’m curious as to how you plan to successfully run a third party . The two dominant parties have the professional machinery to wage war against each other . Volunteers are great, but to compete nationally you need money and paid personnel. Perot was a millionaire who used his own money just to be competitive . He failed and threw the election to the Democrats .

  6. “The Republican Party was originally founded on the same principles on which the Tea Party movement is founded.”

    Tell that to all the racists that are in the Tea Party movement right now.

    Less regulation, & lower taxes (mostly for rich people of course) has been tried and failed twice now, under two different GOP Presidents and with Congress controlled by either Party. It’s a failed model of governance, period end of story.

  7. “From a practical standpoint I’m curious as to how you plan to successfully run a third party.”

    The question isn’t how to successfully “run a third party.” There is no trick and none is necessary. There are already numerous third parties, from the Libertarians to the Constitution Party to the AIP on the right, the Greens, Socialists on the left, etc. And don’t forget all the independents who span the political spectrum either.

    Across the country there are literally hundreds of third party and independent candidates for office at all levels of government. Beginning from the simple fact that none of them is beholden to the Democratic-Republican Party machines and ruling establishment, the Democratic-Republican criminal-political class, they are superior candidates to both incumbents and any primary challengers in the major parties. All that is necessary is for American voters to cease supporting the careerist politicos in the Republican and Democratic Parties and vote for independent and third party alternatives.

    You make it seem like third party and independent candidates for office simply don’t exist. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because they are ignored by establishmentarian elites does not mean they are not there. And the fact that they are ignored and derided by establishmentarian elites is itself an argument in favor of supporting them.

    • There are already numerous third parties, from the Libertarians to the Constitution Party to the AIP on the right, the Greens, Socialists on the left, etc.

      And that is precisely the problem. There are so many of them that all they’re capable of doing is splitting the vote. The left-leaning third parties split the liberal vote and the right-leaning third parties split the conservative vote. And, because of that, the more conservatives vote third party, the less likely it is for a conservative to actually get elected.

      Sad, but true. And that’s the reason that I recently registered as a Republican, after nearly 30 years of being a Libertarian. I want to make a difference in the real world, where results count more than good intentions.

  8. I have to agree with NYD . Other than coming in as swing voters to to throw the election to the right or the left, I can’t see what third parties gain . Their only power is when the other two parties are evenly matched .

    Again, I say the Socialists who run the Democratic Party have pretty much shown the way . They took over the Democratic Party and then the country . If they were third Party, they could not have done that . The various Libertarian and Conservative groups can only hope to win elections if they first take over the GOP. They can win a couple local and State races on their own, but that is about it .

  9. “There are so many of them that all they’re capable of doing is splitting the vote.”

    You’re assuming that all these parties are all running candidates in all the same elections. Some races feature a Libertarian and a Constitution Party candidate, but these is arguably the exception. These candidates understand that dynamic as well. Unifying the vote around a major party candidate is completely self-defeating as the only result is the reproduction of the ruling criminal-political establishment.

    You asked me: how do you plan to run a third party etc? My question for you is: how do you plan to “restore the Republic that the founding fathers intended” within the confines of the two-party state established by a political establishment that long ago declared war on the people of the United States, the US Constitution, rights, liberties and the rule of law? The Republican and Democratic Parties are corrosive of constitutional republican government, and their totalitarian desires for the centralization and monopolization of all political power in the hands of the parties should be repugnant to anyone concerned with constitutional government. If you want to return to constitutional republican government, the first goal must be the dismantling the two-party state and the crushing defeat of the Democratic AND Republican Parties.

  10. d.eris,

    ” If you want to return to constitutional republican government, the first goal must be the dismantling the two-party state and the crushing defeat of the Democratic AND Republican Parties. ”

    You might help engineer the crushing defeat of either the Democratic or the Republican Parties, but never both . At some point events will force you to make a choice .

    With Democrats in power you know what you have . With Republicans, you at least have hope that you can influence them . Since the 08 election you have not even had the 2 Party system . We’ve had a one party dictatorship .

    You saw how they blackmailed and bribed their way to Health care . Ask yourself whether any of your third parties has the muscle to play brass knuckle politics with the Chicago Mafia in Washington . I say they do not .

  11. When a political realignment occurs it has always been because one of our major two parties, becomes so much out of step and out of touch with reality, that they become no longer relevant to the circumstances, situations and conditions that exist in our modern times.

    The political party that does not recognize and adjust to what exists in our twenty-first century and longs for the good old days, that are long gone, and no longer popular, are destined to fade away into the sunset of our dead, no longer existing past.

    The Republican party is on a course of activity that resembles the “No Nothing Party” that had a short life span in American politics.

    When a prominent republican that is running for the senate says that the way to solve the problems of “Medical Care,” is to trade for the services of a doctor with a “chicken,” like they did in the olden days, you have to know that the wanna be republican senator is out of touch with our modern day reality.

    The traditionalists of the republican party have always believed that at the birth of our nation, our nation was perfect, and that those that said that with the passage of time it will become necessary to improve on what already exists, that those “Lefties, that questioned what presently existed, as not being perfect, was and is being denounced by “Right Winger Dinosaurs” as not loving America as much as those that are Right Wingers, that want to return to the traditions of the no longer relevant past.

    Because the Republican Party and those that represent the old way of what existed in our American past, like “White Supremacy,” keeping “women” in their place, and “American Chauvinism,” or stated in another way “American Exceptionalism,” because the old traditions that existed in the past are no longer popular or accepted in modern America, those that cling to those old ways of thinking and doing are destined to be trashed inside the trash can of the dead past.

    It is the opposite of that old way of thinking and doing that will represent our more relevant present and our march toward the future.

    The “Tea Party” and the “Right Wing” old time traditionalists will destroy what is left of the “Republican Party,”

    The Republican Party will be replaced by the “Democratic Party” that will become the new more relevant “Conservative Party.”

    A “Progressive Party,” made up of a coalition of Progressives and Socialists will become the new mainstream party, within a two party political system.

    This new political realignment will happen because it is the only thing that possibly can happen.

  12. “Since the 08 election you have not even had the 2 Party system . We’ve had a one party dictatorship.”

    And before that under the Bush administration we had a one party dictatorship as well until 2006. The two-party system is itself the dictatorship of the Democratic-Republican two-party state. In polities across the country, the so-called two-party state is a literal one-party dictatorship in which the Democrats or Republicans control the great majority of elected offices. The two-party system is a threat to constitutional republican government by the very fact that the parties seek always and everywhere to centralize and monopolize political power to the benefit of the party. This will not change until the people of the United States stand up against the ruling criminal-political class and remove the Democrats and Republicans from power. Or you could just vote Republican and/or Democrat, if you’d rather just continue to complain about all the criminals in elected office.

  13. d.eris ,

    ” And before that under the Bush administration we had a one party dictatorship as well until 2006. ”

    You could not be more wrong, or maybe you were not living in the same country I was . Republicans never had the majorities the Democrats had since 2008. Look it up .

    Democrats blocked Bush almost everywhere . Social Security Reform, energy, reforming Fannie and Freddie before they blew up the economy . Do your research and then show me where I am wrong .

  14. Denny Hastert was speaker of the house from 1999-2006. Bill Frist was Senate majority leader from 2003-2007. The current Democrat majorities are larger. Whose fault is that? But what does it matter?

    These questions are virtually irrelevant: whichever major party is in the majority is inconsequential because they both serve the same interests, namely, those of the ruling Democratic-Republican criminal-political class. The two-party state and duopoly system of government is primarily reactionary and corporatist in character. If your goal is to restore the republic the founders intended, this cannot be done within the confines of the two-party system for that precise reason. The major parties are aligned against representative, constitutional government; they are hostile to rights, liberties and the rule of law.

    • “The current Democrat majorities are larger.”

      Not really. The GOP had similar majorities in the Senate (from 1997-2000 & 2005-2006) to what the Dems had for much of 2009. The GOP had similar majorities in the House (from 1995-1997 & 2003-2006) to what the Dems had during much of the 110th Congress.

      http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

    • The political establishment exists to keep the structure of what exists intact without a fundamental change within that particular structure.

      The foundation of the structure of any and every political system is the ECONOMiC SYSTEM.

      It is the economic system that will characterize the basic nature of the society and the character that will flow from that basic nature.

      Capitalism is a system of governing that changes its character to conform to the change that has naturally evolved within the passage of time.

      To expect otherwise would be irrational thinking.

      The dictatorship of the capitalist class at a particular stage of development is to be expected, particularly at this time of the “Global Economy.”

      When it becomes not advantages to have an economy tear itself apart by competition, it becomes necessary to no longer compete but to move toward the only alternative to competition and that is cooperation.

      The World Economy and the “New World Order” has become a fact of life.

      “Free Enterprise” is ancient history that belongs to the dead past.

      Progress is moving forward in small steps and large steps and to accept what is possible and to reject that what is impossible.

  15. ” Not really. The GOP had similar majorities in the Senate (from 1997-2000 & 2005-2006) to what the Dems had for much of 2009. ”

    The relevant argument is when each party had the Presidency and majorities in either House of Congress . My point that Republicans never had the absolute power during President Bush that the Democrats have under Obama is right .

    Why don’t you look at your own site, which by the way is not accurate anyway ? The time period in question was Bush’s Presidency versus Obama’s. For most of 09 Democrats had 60 Senate seats and then 59. The best Republicans ever had during Bush was 55. The best count in the House Republicans ever had during Bush was 232 . Democrats had 256 during 09 .

    In case you cannot count. 60 is more than 55 and is filibuster proof . Also 256 is more than 232 .

  16. “In case you cannot count. 60 is more than 55 and is filibuster proof . Also 256 is more than 232.”

    And so what’s your point, Alan? You still have not addressed the fact that whichever of the major parties is in the majority, they ONLY ever expand the power, scope and authority of the state, while eroding rights, liberties and the very rule of law. Voting for Republicans or Democrats cannot have any other result because the very form of the Republican and Democratic Parties, the dictatorship of the Democratic-Republican two-party state and duopoly system of government, undermines representative, constitutional republican government.

    Freedom and independence today begins with freedom from the Democratic and Republican Parties, from the dictatorship of the two-party state and duopoly system of government.

    • “And so what’s your point, Alan?”

      He doesn’t have a point…he’s an Internet Troll. Just ignore him…he’ll bob, weave, lie, and obfuscate all over the place (as well as change the subject at will) to try & distract you. It’s pointless.

      For example, the Dems didn’t have a 60-seat super-majority until July 7, 2009 when the GOP finally ended their obstruction in the 2008 MN Senate election, and then they only kept that super-majority until February 4, 2010 when Scott Brown took office. That also doesn’t take into account that there was no temporary replacement for Senator Kennedy’s Senate seat from August 25th to September 10th of 2009 either. The Dems, IMHO, didn’t do very much with their super-majority, and they had a majority of seats (in the mid 50s) for much of the rest of the year, which the GOP had in the Senate from 1997-2000 & 2005-2006.

      Have the Dems had more seats in the House in the 111th Congress? Sure, but most of the rest of the time (from 1995-1997 & 2003-2006) the GOP had similar majorities (with the number of seats in the low 230s) in the House to what the Dems had during much of the 110th Congress. These are FACTS, and they are NOT in dispute!

  17. d.eris,

    ” And so what’s your point, Alan? You still have not addressed the fact that whichever of the major parties is in the majority, they ONLY ever expand the power, scope and authority of the state, while eroding rights, liberties and the very rule of law. ”

    I agree that Republicans are not perfect . They were voted out of power partly because they became Democratic-Lite . I believe that part of the reason they went astray was that Democrats have built up a large constituency of Dependence that Republicans felt they had to compete for those votes .

    In defense of Republicans let me give you this . What really gives Government it’s power ? Money. Power to tax and power to spend . Republicans are the only voice in the wilderness right now, yelling to control spending and taxes . Also they are the only voice railing against Carbon tax regulation . They were also united against the health care take over . They are the only ones with a snowball’s chance in hell of repealing this abortion .

    They are the only power standing between this country and the cliff Obama is running it off.

    All of your third party organizations are totally meaningless . Now you tell me where your third party politics is going to get you anywhere ?

    If you hate the Republican Party, then join it and change it . Because right now you are just pi**ing into the wind, my friend .

  18. The Republican party has lost its mind and is getting more insane with every passing day.

    The crazies from the far-right have taken over, and are chasing moderates out of the party, or are converting them to become crazies, so that they won’t become victims of the far right nut cases.

    This activity from the “nut jobs” of the radical Right, can only result in the voters rejecting the Republicans in the next election.

    The problems that most Americans are concerned about, want government to solve those problems and not to run away from those problems by saying that we should have less government, and less spending to solve our problems.

    The Republicans, by not agreeing to maintain spending for those that are unemployed.

    By being opposed to controlling and having congressional oversight on those that were responsible for the economic crises that we are presently in.

    By not recognizing or attempting to fix our broken Health-Care System

    By resorting to outrageous name calling, and by appearing to protect the Casino like Banking System from government controls, and congressional oversight, are some of the reasons why the republicans will lose the next election cycle.

    The Republicans have no soul or conscience.

    The big problems that we as Americans face cannot be solved by simplistic slogans like less “spending,” and less “government.”

    Only the “Right Wing Crazies” would believe, or be scared into voting Republican.

    It will be “down hill,” for the Republicans, and they will eventually become a part of our dead past

    The “Democrats,” will eventually sell out its base, by being not for what they say they are for and compromising to the extent that they will resemble a more liberal “Republican Party.”

    Consequently the democratic party base, will splinter from the Democratic party and will establish a new more “Progressive Socialist” like, party within the two party system.

    This will happen because it is the only thing that can happen.

  19. Mr. Walters,

    ” This activity from the “nut jobs” of the radical Right, can only result in the voters rejecting the Republicans in the next election. ”

    You have absolutely NOTHING to worry about then,,,do you ?????

    • Alan,
      I do not worry about what will happen in politics!

      What will happen will happen because it will be the only thing that can possibly happen.

      At this point in time the handwriting is on the wall for all of the people to see that are able to read and understand.

      Those that are blinded by the ignorance of the past will keep on making the same mistakes because they are unable to adjust to new circumstances, situations, and the necessary new conditions that continually evolve over the passage of time.

      Allan, You are so much out of the loop that you are completely ignorant as to what is transpiring before your eyes. You are still thinking and acting like we are living in the “Nineteenth Century.”

      You keep saying that we live in a “Republic,” that we do not live in a “Democracy!”

      It is because of this nonsense that you do not recognize the democratic advances that have occurred.

      That is why you hate it when the common people, are gaining an equality that was not apparent in previous centuries, before the Women’s Movement, the Civil Rights Movement, the G. I. Bill of Rights, that allowed for the first time low income people to receive an academic education at a University level.

      And thanks to that great “Democratic President,” “Franklin D Roosevelt,” and his “New Deal Administration” the “Common People,” took one big step forward, toward a democracy that you continue to denigrate with your snobbish Republican, philosophical outlook.

      You hate it when traditions of the past are no longer in fashion. You Right Wing snobs went crazy when a “Black Man,” became for the first time ever, President of the USA.

      You go crazy when “Workers” struggle to receive higher wages!

      You republicans go over the top, when poor people and the middle class receive benefits from the public sector, because the private sector breaks down and cannot provide jobs and income to the Working Poor and the Middle Class!

      America needs “Health Care” that the Private Sector seems to be unable to provide the care without exploiting their patients and killing them off so that they can make a bloody profit.

      The uncaring Republicans prevent the Public Sector from doing the job that the Private Sector has shown no compassion and no ability in doing.

      Because these “ELITIST” Republicans are so much for the “Super Rich” and against the “Common People,” it is almost a sure thing that the Republicans are approaching the End of Times!

  20. “Republicans are the only voice in the wilderness right now, yelling to control spending and taxes . . . They are the only power standing between this country and the cliff Obama is running it off.”

    Actually, they are not the only ones demanding control of spending and taxes. There are Libertarians, Independents etc. demanding the same exact thing. The difference is that Republicans HAVE NO CREDIBILITY on any of these issues, there is no reason to believe a word coming from their demagogic mouths. The Republican Party revved up the motor in the car and started it speeding toward that cliff before Obama got into the driver’s seat. The Republican Party is on the same side as the Democratic Party, and that is the side of the political class and ruling elite, who are aligned together against the rest of us.

    How many more times will you allow yourself to fall for the lies and deceptions of the ruling parties? How many more times will you allow them to stab you in the back?

    Infiltration strategy of joining the party and changing it will fail because they very form of the dictatorship of the two-party state undermines constitutional government, the protection of rights, liberties and the rule of law.

    Freedom and independence today begins with freedom from the tyranny of the Democratic-Republican two-party state and duopoly system of government.

  21. d.eris,

    ” Actually, they are not the only ones demanding control of spending and taxes. There are Libertarians, Independents etc. demanding the same exact thing. The difference is that Republicans HAVE NO CREDIBILITY on any of these issues, there is no reason to believe a word coming from their demagogic mouths. ”

    I say to that, ” Libertarians, Independents etc ” HAVE NO POWER . It is going to take raw naked power to stop the big government bolsheviks Obama,Reid, and Peolsi .

    However, I wish you well in building the power you will need to accomplish your goals .

    Mr. Walters,

    :) You are very very amusing . You say you do not worry about what happens in politics . You say that the future is already written and that we Conservatives do not matter . Yet you are writing with great passion as if you want to convince us to give up our efforts . If we are so irrelevant and you are so sure about the future, what harm are we doing in the giant scheme of the Universe ? Why do you still care ?

  22. Alan,
    All progress is moving forward away from what existed in the past, and moving away from what exists in the present.

    It is predictable because on the road of life you can only move forward, backward, or you can appear to stand still inside our present day existence.

    All scientists would agree that it is impossible for all things that exists to not be in motion, so standing still and not moving is not an option, when all things slow down it is scientifically understood that what slows down goes through a process of decay, and the “falling apart,” becomes a part of its reality.

    When everything and anything in existence falls apart the only option that can follow after that, is the option of “coming together.”

    The coming together is never a repeat of what existed before, but is always a refinement of what existed before.

    It is because of this scientific understanding that I can predict with scientific certainty what will eventually happen inside a social framework.

    All change is the product of struggle between opposite forces. Without struggle nothing happens.

    As long as I am alive, I am a part of this process of interaction between opposing forces.

    I am a part of this struggle as is everyone regardless of their consciousness of what is happening inside their environment.

    Where you stand within this process, is what gives you your identity and your humanity.

    That is why I care!

  23. Mr. Walters,

    Your speeches are filled with the same lies you told scores of times . You really waste your wisdom here . I can give you the addresses of left wing sites where they would love you as much as they hate me .

  24. Alan,
    No one hates you! ….They only feel sorry for you!
    Why are you trying to get rid of me!
    Are you afraid of the competition!

  25. Mr. Walters,

    There are two sites that I argue on and trust me on at least one they are not fond of me. The other they just swear at me . If you put up an e mail on your site I will send you their addresses . I believe they are ” your kind of folks “.

    As far as competition, you don’t compete . I said it uncountable times here, all you do is make boring speeches. If you actually answer my questions, I will be happy to laugh at you after the midterm elections, or have you laugh at me if your Socialist Democratic Party does well .

  26. Mr. Walters,

    I’m curious as to what you think of the riots in Greece .

  27. I think the term “progressive” is highly subjective.

    It occurs to me that “progress” would be defined as movement in an intended direction. In which case, progress in government would be the accomplishment of specific political goals. Because success in achieving different goals would be viewed differently by the advocates of different goals, not much is accomplished by labeling one’s philosophies as progressive.

    If one’s goals are the elimination of free enterprise and liberty of the individual, any restraint of capitalism is progress.

    Capitalism is the tool that allows individual freedom.

    • “I think the term ‘progressive’ is highly subjective.”

      No, it really isn’t. As it relates to politics, the term progressive refers to a whole range of issues & policies as clearly defined by the progressive movement:

      http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Politically+progressive

      You’re completely & totally weak attack on the progressive movement reminds me of GOPers that call the Democratic Party the “Democrat Party” merely because they don’t want to give the impression that Dems are more democratic than GOPers, which is a ridiculous argument.

      “If one’s goals are the elimination of free enterprise and liberty of the individual, any restraint of capitalism is progress.

      Capitalism is the tool that allows individual freedom.”

      The USA has had a mixed economy for quite some time now. There are those that would generally wish it to be mixed than others, but there really has never been a true “free market” in the USA ever. Those that dream of that are living in a fantasy world, period.

  28. Jackson,

    The opposite of being “SUBJECTIVE,” is being “OBJECTIVE!”

    “Subjective” thinking is based on belief, and “belief” is based on subjective notions that are not validated by evidence but are based on faith.

    It is subjective faith that erases “doubt” from the equation.

    It is thinking and coming to conclusions that does not rely on objective irrefutable evidence but relies on only subjective notions of what is true and what is false. It relies on prejudices and unscientific and therefor faulty thinking in determining what is real and what is unreal.

    To be objective is to recognize that “Truth” and “Reality” exists independent of consciousness, and to be objective you must go only where the evidence points you to, and to eliminate from you’re thinking preconceived notions that are not supported by irrefutable evidence.

    “Progress” has always meant, “necessary change” from what presently exists to something new, that never existed before.

    To something that is an improvement of what existed before.

    Progress in our modern world can be understood objectively, and scientifically!

    Those that do not take the scientific approach to understanding history and progress will always emotionally cling to what they are familiar with and be fearful and ignorant of necessary progressive social change.

    Dogmatic thinking prevents well intentioned people from understanding the scientific process that enables modern humans to free themselves from the ignorance of our superstitious past and to move forward into an improved and necessary future.

    Capitalism at one time was the tool that allowed for “individual freedom.”

    But, history shows us that all things will eventually turn to the opposite of what it formally was.

    “Free Enterprise,” that was based on competition is no longer true in the modern era.

    Capitalism has transformed itself into a system that is no longer a “Free Enterprise.” But in the modern era it has become a “controlled enterprise.”

    “Competition” has with the passage of time, predictably changed to a system of “cooperation!”

    It has become necessary for the capitalist system so as to survive into the future to have the 1% of those that control 90% of our nation’s wealth to cooperate, rather than be at each other’s throat in a deadly competition.

    “The New World Order” and the “Global Economy” is transforming the concept of “National Interests,” to that of no longer being relevant in this modern era.

    To my way of thinking it was predictable that capitalism would grow out of its reliance on Economic Nationalism and attach itself to the larger and more relevant “Economic Globalism” so it could survive and thrive into our “One world future!”

    Meanwhile the ignorant uneducated “Right Wingers” are blissfully living in the Nineteenth Century and are convinced that all change from the perfection that was our past is moving away from that what was perfect and toward that what is imperfect.

    And that is why you all are opposed to necessary progress.

  29. Jackson,

    What you have to understand is that Liberal-Progressives have alternated between Progressive and Liberal for perhaps a century or more . Each title comes in fashion every 10 or twenty years when the former has worn out it’s welcome to the American psyche.

    The only variation they have is how radical or moderate each new generation of Liberal-Progressives are in comparison to the group that preceded it.

    An example of a moderate would be Hillary Clinton. She came from a capitalist background but, was infected by Liberalism in College. She really is more of an opportunist who combines the political power building of Big Government Socialism, with the wealth building of crony capitalism.

    An example of a radical Liberal-Progressive is Mr. Walters. These tend not to be as well educated or intelligent as the upper class Hillary types. Being more emotionally than intellectually committed to anti capitalism, they readily substitute a looped dogma for clarity in anything they talk about.

    • Jackson,
      Do not be confused by the confused thinking of Alan Scott!

      His thinking is confusing and not rational because he has no understanding of how the world and everything that exists on the planet and in the universe EVOLVES in a similar pattern that is scientifically predictable.

      Because of Alan’s lack of understanding of the process of “CAUSE and EFFECT he will never understand or become conscious of what is HISTORICAL progress,

      He will never know what is the HISTORY of attempting to stand still, and what is the HISTORY of moving forward, away from what existed in the past and what exists in the present and toward that what will eventually exist in the near and distant future.

      To understand evolutionary change, is to understand and scientifically predict with scientific accuracy what happened in the past, what is happening in the present and what most likely will happen in the near and distant future.

      It was historical progress and progressive and inevitable, to move from an economy that was based on agriculture and the dominance of the class of “Feudal Landlords” and the Landed “Aristocracy” over the class of “Chattel Slaves” and “Feudal Serfs.”

      Followed by an economy based on “Industry and “Capitalism,” that dominated the class that worked for a living, by the class that “OWNED for a living.

      It is inevitable that when you have a privileged class dominate and control an exploited class that you will have “Class Warfare!”

      It was the “Progressive” movement, from the earliest of times, struggled to establish a more free and equal environment that would do away with the old “Sex, Race, and Class discrimination that made a society not equal.

      It is inevitable that a time will come when a “Classless Society” will evolve from a class society.”

      It is also inevitable that “Nation States” will cease to exist, inside an “Integrated One World Community.”

      A community that will be rich by their sharing of a diverse world culture, rather than attempting to dominate and destroy cultures as had been the practice in our competitive past.

      Everything that exists changes to the opposite of that what previously existed. That is the meaning of “CHANGE!”

      The “Nature and Character of that “change” is determined by the precise conditions of the environment that encompasses that particular change.

      An economy that is planned to enrich the planet and all of the people living on the planet, without discrimination and exploitation, is the only way that we can PROGRESS into the future.

      If we do not progress into a cooperative sharing world.

      We will destroy the world!

      • Wow, sounds like something from the failed soviets. I ought to take you to Russia with me on my next trip so you can understand the outcome. Democracy and capitalism are not perfect, but they are far better than the failed lunacy you propose.

  30. Tuco,

    In the old Soviet Union, you did not have a Democracy! What you had was a “DICTATORSHIP OF THE WORKING CLASS!”

    At the present time in the USA and in most of the developed and developing world
    You have a mixed economy of moderate socialism and moderate capitalism.

    When the system of capitalism becomes or feels that it is being threatened by the forces of change from moderate capitalism to socialism the capitalists will use the backward political “RIGHT WING,” to attempt to establish a “DICTATORSHIP of the CAPITALIST CLASS!”

    Democracy will be regarded by the emerging FASCISTS in America and elsewhere, as being soft, in the struggle to maintain the class dominance of the Capitalist Class over the Working Class!

    In other-words, the IGNORANT and FEARFUL people that cannot understand the social need for social change from what was to what will be, within the natural scheme of things, would and has through out the history of the planet welcomed a dictatorship so as to keep things as they are and fought against the agents of change.

    In the old Soviet Union the communists of that society established at the time that they seized power in a backward agrarian Russia and Eastern EUROPE a “DICTATORSHIP of the Working Class!”

    The people that made up the old Soviet Union had never lived under a capitalist rule, they only experienced the political system of the “Monarchy” and the economic system of “FEUDALISM!”

    It is my opinion that the reason that the “Dictatorship of the Working class” failed in the old “Soviet Union,” was because Capitalism globally was too strong and the worlds resources were in the hands of world capitalism and the Soviets could not compete.

    The world is gradually moving toward a mixed economy that will eventually become a classless world wide planned economy that is planned to satisfy the needs of all of the people world wide without discrimination.

    Nations cannot exist within a global economy, so we will become an integrated global village that will finally have the ability to repair the damage to the planet done by our individual competitive nature, for out doing everyone that gets in our way.

    This state of existence will become our future only if the progressive forces in the world struggle together so as to defeat those fearful and ignorant “Right Wingers” that keep living in the no longer relevant past.

  31. Mr. Walters,

    ” It is my opinion that the reason that the “Dictatorship of the Working class” failed in the old “Soviet Union,” was because Capitalism globally was too strong and the worlds resources were in the hands of world capitalism and the Soviets could not compete. ”

    In my opinion the Soviet Union collapsed because it was evil, period. It was not a dictatorship of the working class. It was a dictatorship of a new political elite, the Communist Party. The Czar and the Aristocracy, were merely replaced by a new privileged class.

    The Soviet Union was rich in natural resources. The Russians and the other minorities of the USSR matched up well in talent and education to it’s Capitalist competitors.

    So your claim of the world’s resources being in the hands of Capitalism as the cause of Soviet failure is as wrong as all your other “Scientific” analysis.

    • Alan,

      “In my opinion the Soviet Union collapsed because it was evil, period. It was not a dictatorship of the working class. It was a dictatorship of a new political elite, the Communist Party. The Czar and the Aristocracy, were merely replaced by a new privileged class.”

      Alan, A political party is not a class! A political party may or may not represent a “CLASS!” but it is definitely not a class or is it a system!

      What collapsed in the Soviet Union was “The dictatorship” of the working class!

      This working class dictatorship was established in the old Soviet Union to keep Capitalism from infiltrating the working class system of Socialism, and subverting the system, and changing the system to capitalism.

      The struggle between the two opposing economic systems had nothing to do with “GOOD and EVIL!”

      At the present time Russia and most of Europe has an economic system of a mixed economy of examples of, socialism and capitalism.

      The politics and the economics of the entire planet is trending toward a one world “GLOBALISM” that is apparent to those that are not blinded by their infatuation for what occurred in our nationalistic and provincial past.

      The global economy and the influence that this economy has in the politics of this world is overwhelming and beyond the comprehension of those that are infatuated with the past and fearful of the future.

      The CHANGE that occurred in the “OLD SOVIET UNION,” is a part of the changes that Globalism was responsible for bringing about.

  32. Two people in particular on this board have written a few volumes of nonsensical bull****. Surely, nothing has changed from the Red Room in all this time!

    • I’m salivating at the prospect of a red revolution. Moving targets!!

      • Tuco,

        Your stated desire to “KILL” is probably the only way that you can demonstrate how frustrated you are in a world that you find impossible to understand.

        It is probably not your fault that your limited understanding of the world around you causes you to strike out in this fasion.

        When what you are familiar with is about to change it is understandable that you would become frustrated and fearful of that change and worried about the need to adjust.

        The “New World Order” and the “Global Economy” is causing your beloved “Nation” to no longer exist as it had in the past.

        Your paranoid obsession with the enemy being “Communism” that you believe is the agent that will change your way of life, has blinded you to the reality that it is “Capitalism” that is changing your life by globalizing the planet and rendering “Nationalism” obsolete.

        The “Capitalism” that existed at our Nation’s birth no longer exists.

        Capitalism has transformed itself from being a” Free National Competitive Enterprise” to a “Controled Global Enterprise” that inevitably will drive the planet toward a “New World Order”

        “Nations” will no longer exist on the planet and the control of this “New World Order” will be a power structure of a few of the largest corporations that will cooperate with their fellow capitalists, so as to control supply and demand, and thereby holding hostage the consumers of the world so that they can exploit and control them to the greatest degree.

        A “PLANNED ECONOMY for and by a Power Structure of a few of the largest global corporations that will insure their dominance over workers and consumers, through out the world can only generate a reaction from the consumers and workers of the world to rebel and create in the place of a “Global Planned Economy” for a few large corporations, to a “Global Planned Economy,” for all of the people on the planet.

  33. And with that said, as much as I want to disagree with you NYD, I do agree. Change needs to be done from within the party if anything is to truly change. Sure it would be nice to have more than two options… but then again… what if we have 3 parties… would we still find ourselves between two parties? Or maybe all three? The reason that the two party is so unappetizing now is because both parties have run away and stand for nothing… however… it is We the People who allowed them to run away.

  34. Mr. Walters,

    You’ve progressed. You actually almost answered my questions.

  35. I’d like to get back to some part of the original ideas expressed in the opening statement.

    ” I believe the Republican Party has betrayed the principles on which it was founded, and has been betraying them for years. I’m by no means suggesting that conservatives should fall in with the party line. I’m saying the opposite. Conservatives should be the ones defining the party line. ”

    I believe part of the problem with both parties is the battle between the Federal Government and State and local Governments. Historically the States jealously defended their power against the usurpation of the Federal Government. After 2 and a quarter centuries, the States do not have much left to defend . Signature events like the Civil War and the New Deal have shifted the money and the power to Washington DC.

    When political tides periodically sweep Republicans into power at the Federal level, they have the same incentive as Democrats to grow Washington.

    • Alan,

      “Historically the States jealously defended their power against the usurpation of the Federal Government. After 2 and a quarter centuries, the States do not have much left to defend . Signature events like the Civil War and the New Deal have shifted the money and the power to Washington DC.”

      The Republican party was founded as the party of Lincoln!
      It was President Lincoln and the Republican Party of that era that used the Union Army to fight the Southern Confederacy that wanted to separate from the North because of the issue of “STATES RIGHTS!”

      Your claim that the Republican Party at its inception, was the party that stood for “STATES RIGHTS,” is FALSE!

      The “SOUTHERN STRATEGY” of “STATES RIGHTS” is a strategy that would turn America back to the time of “Institutional Bigotry,” DEPRESSED WAGES, and a STATE SEPARATISM, that would weaken the “UNITY” of the United States as a modern Nation!

      Your stated belief in “AMERICAN SEPARATISM,” is the most UNPATRIOTIC EXPRESSION that I have ever heard!

      The EVOLUTION of the United States from political and economic power coming from the Country Side and Rural America, and then evolving from the countryside to the small provincial towns and villages, and after that economic and political power evolving into the cities and after that, power came to the States, and then political and economic power was centered inside the federal government.
      Right now economic and political power is centered inside the GLOBAL COMMUNITY.

      All of this change is the natural occurrence of growth and maturing that is inherent in all forms of what exists in nature and everything that reflects all forms of nature.

      In other words, you can’t do anything about this evolutionary change, except to adapt and mature.

  36. Mr. Walters,

    As usual you have misstated my positions. Your biases are so profound that you read your own meanings into my words instead of what I wrote .

  37. Mr. Walters,

    I will never be on your side and everything you predict won’t happen. Just continue to live in your Communist fantasy. Keep rationalizing after your Democratic Party loses a major part of it’s power this November.

    Your tide is going out. Obama will not rebound.

  38. Alan,

    The popularity of the “Tea Party” crowd has been greatly exagerated!

    The people in America recognize this so called “Movement” as “Comedy Relief” that will eventually be laughed out of existence,

    The Republican party has been tainted by the poison that is “The Tea Party Movement,” and will probably never recover from “Tea Party Sickness!” A sickness that is narrow minded and bigoted to such an extreme that average Americans can’t help but be repulsed by this paranoid detached from reality hateful group of “mal-adjusted citizens.”

    I personaly would like to see the broken Republican Party elect as candidates for the general election the weirdos that call themselves “Tea Partiers,”

    In the general election. If the Democrats are pitted against Republican Tea Partiers, they, the democrats, will KILL the Republicans, and the Republicans will no longer be a viable political party within our two party system.

  39. Mr. Walters,

    I will have to wait until November to see how you rationalize your failed predictions. Until then, how do you explain Scott Brown winning Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat in Mass. ?

  40. Alan Scott,

    Scott Brown was not a “Tea Partier!” He was a Republican that ran his election as a “Moderate Republican” that would attempt to “cooperate” with democrats so as to accomplish something in a divided senate.
    Mass. is not Texas, Arizona, or the “deep South,” The sophisticated voters of this Northern State would never vote for a backward, ignorant, “Tea Partier!”

  41. First I want to say, I sulute those in the military for quiting and not excepting what is called the commander in chief.
    I think all the military should stand up for our rights as the best country in the world and stop those that are in Government office from giving this country to foriegn enimies that are out to distroy ALL of the citizins of the United States of America.


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